Leslie Carruthers: Hello and welcome. You’re dealing with the combination of problems you face as a content marketer in b2b plus Coronavirus. We’re here to talk with leading content marketers, top marketers and business leaders about how you can prepare for the rebound. Today, we are so lucky we have Jim Marous with us. He is one of the most influential people in banking. He is a top five 5 fin tech influencer to follow and in addition to having advised the White House in the past, he’s an internationally recognized financial industry expert, co publisher of The Financial Brand, owner and publisher of The Digital Banking Report and hosts of the top 10 banking podcast banking transformed. He’s been in more traditional and financial media outlets than I can list here. Let me just dive into the questions. Jim, thank you for being here.
Jim Marous: It’s great to be here. Thank you very much.
Leslie Carruthers: It’s an honor. Would you tell us a bit about you and your role in the financial services industry and how much you’ve covered the COVID-19 pandemics impact on the banking space? Yeah.
Jim Marous: So as a little bit of a background, I came out of college many, many years ago, and went right in the banking industry. I worked for a local bank here that has since changed its name and become part of another bank. Its many banks have, and spent about 15 years in traditional banking. And then I moved over to the marketing services industry where I was in a direct marketing and database marketing company, different companies for about 25 years. So about 20 years, I guess, would be and was serving the financial services industry, so I never went very far from it, and then come about 10 or 11 years ago. I was worried about becoming irrelevant. I was at an age where sometimes I would look at people that were spouting off what they wanted to talk about or what they wanted to sell whatever it may be. And I found that it certain age, people became a little bit of a coasting stat status. So they would, they would not have as much up to date knowledge. I said, I don’t want to be that person. So I said, The way to do this is to continually learn about what’s going on the industry. I then would publish it. And at that point, it was a blog truly was as categorized as a blog. It was anywhere from 200 to 500 words, which is a whole lot shorter than I do now.
Leslie Carruthers: And what year was that? Jim, when he started?
Jim Marous: It was 11 years ago, so Wow, that’s great. Yeah. And and I was 55. And I it was really a mission to say I’m going to continually share to the industry what I was doing, it was a door opener, to be honest with you. I was writing articles about other people’s research. It was a door opener for the sales But it was also a way. And one of the things that you kind of look back and go, geez, I was smarter than I thought it wasn’t, it looks like it was more planned than it was. But by educating myself and publishing something, I had to continuously replenish that bucket. So I learned something, I share it, it’s gone. I gotta find something else new. And so I was publishing twice a week, the same way I am now I’m publishing on Mondays and Wednesdays are Mondays and Thursdays every week, about things going on in the industry. Well, I stopped doing it about the second year for a summer to follow my son playing lacrosse. And when I came back, the reaction was kind of interesting. Number one, people said, number one, they thought I died, which which showed me that yes, I was right about Wow, yeah, being an age where people might think you’re packing it in. And secondly, I realized that people really cared about what I was doing. And it was, again, early in the the content marketing phase. It was also the beginning of social media. So I was always Promoting what I was publishing on Twitter, LinkedIn the same way I do today. Therefore keeping a cycle of information was flowing. Well, in the third year I was doing this I realized I had a million site views in the third year of my, my little blog, and and start talking to a gentleman by the name of Jeffrey Pilzer, who owned in and was the producer of a firm or a publication called the financial brand. We joined to we decided to join forces. And the rest is history. I mean, I I not only started writing for them twice a week, but in addition, bought a digital banking report business. And last July, I started a podcast. So what was interesting, the whole issue of me being a top 10. Find the FinTech content market and all that really came out of the fact that I brought together content, social media at the same time at the very beginning. And so it’s probably as much because of the number of the number of followers I have on LinkedIn and Twitter may be a function of how long they’ve been doing it as much as the content, but my ability to you know, it’s been an amazing ride because my ability to speak to audiences worldwide, it’s also because of my writing, my ability to, to write for different publications, my ability to see the you know, visit the White House, all that came about because it, but part of it also, I think this is important for your audience and yourself is, it was a passion. I mean, I’m not doing something that I consider work, I’m doing something I consider a lot of fun. I also consider myself paying a backward, I’m paying it back to the industry. They’ve been so good to me. I love the banking industry. I love the transformation that’s going on love the digitalization the technology, the innovation. And now as much as anytime to get to your question a little slowly. Is is a time of massive daily change. But again, the gap between when finance institutions are doing what consumers want. It’s really around digitalization content, and the ability to communicate to a vast audience in a way that’s easy for them to absorb, which is really what we’re all talking about.
Leslie Carruthers: Great. Got it.
Leslie Carruthers: Are there any positives that came out of the COVID-19 crisis within the banking industry?
Jim Marous: Well, there have been, um, it has been disruptive. But the banking industry, by nature has been slow to transform themselves to the modern era of, of digital communication, digital engagement. They’ve been very physical structure based. I mean, you just look around neighborhoods and, you know, it used to be that it still is the fact that there’s many bank branches are gas stations and and they’re overwhelming on their over-saturation. I think what COVID did was in a nanosecond, you had a hard what we call a heart attack. moment, you had the realization that if you weren’t already able to deliver what you had digitally, in the way that Amazon and Google and many other firms can do, you were really stuck. You had to quickly transform yourself to be able to deliver on a digital platform because no longer were people able to visit the inside of a branch. No one were people able to deposit a check in a normal way. And many people were very uncomfortable that you know, and on top of the fact that consumers are sometimes uncomfortable, it was probably because financial institutions didn’t overtly promote it. Much like three challenge you might like come to the retail industry. And she remember she went from the store base to the for to the digital side. And she would get all kinds of competition from the store base people. They said, you’re taking business away from us and she goes, No, I’m simply serving, what the consumer wants and the challenges the same thing was going on in banking. The bankers in your local range didn’t want digital banking to take hold, because pretty much their jobs depend on people visiting the branch. Well, the visits to the branch had gone down probably 60% over the last decade. And so organizations are having to realize that she’s What do I do? Some organizations are modernizing the branch, which I think is pretty much putting lipstick on a pig, I’m not sure if that’s the right challenge that they should be facing. On the other hand, organizations, if you say you’re doing it account opening digitally, but you make the consumer come into the branch, where were you, when COVID hit, you can no longer open accounts. So the one of the positives to the banking industry is it immediately said, You’ve got to get on board digitally. And again, one of the challenges for the banking industry, they’re going through a time of prosperity before COVID-19. They were at the high point of high fire financials, there was no reason to change and that’s why we call it the hardest hack moment. If you go to the doctor three times in a row three years ago and they go you know you got to do this. This this And, and you go, Yeah, okay. But the next time you visit he goes, You know what? It looks like you’re dying. If you don’t change your diet and exercise regimen, you’re going to have a problem. It’s amazing how behavior can change when you have to do it. In addition, I think financial institutions are realizing their role in the community. The government’s giving them a number of access tools between the Small Business PPP loan and the consumer stimulus packages to be to take a role of really serving the consumer in this small business. Some banks have done well with it. Some have done terribly. I will say that my financial institution, my business bank, has done a terrible job of reaching out to me. They’ve not personalized communication. They’ve obviously communicated to me as a group as a small business group. And it was interesting because for the two months prior to COVID-19, my bank was reaching out to me once a month saying, hey, you Let’s sit down, let’s talk About your retirement funds, you said you wanted to consolidate in one place. We’d love to have your business. They haven’t called me yet, since it happened. Now, I realize you’re busy. But small business people like myself, have long memories. Once we get a chance to go back into the branch, I feel like I’m going to have the Julia Roberts moment shopping on Rodeo Drive and going,
you know what?
You miss your opportunity. And and I think they have so some organizations have responded very well. Other ones haven’t done nearly as well.
Leslie Carruthers: How is the banking industry trying to help small businesses, community businesses to be prepared for the rebound after COVID-19?
Jim Marous: It’s interesting, um, it’s not based on size. I think some of the bigger organizations do a pretty good job because they have the tools. Well, we’ve seen some great stories from small finance. tuitions that have really rallied when the SBA came out with a PPP loan. There’s a small institution in Edmond, Oklahoma that I believe has one or two branches. They went 24 hours straight, to be able to respond to how to deliver the loan packages that the government dropped on their desks at the end of the day on a Friday,
Leslie Carruthers: I can’t even imagine
Jim Marous: Oh, and they and they were possibly I don’t know for sure, a paper based organization, when with regard to SBA loans, they found a partner that helped them build a platform that allowed them to digitally do the loans. And they were a very active organization within the community. In addition, they came out the week before and said, Hey, any of our customers, consumers customers, we know now what the government has approved from the stimulus package for consumers. We will let you overdraw your account by the amount of the check you’re expected to get. And you don’t have to worry about paying this back until you get your check. While they Mark Cuban recognized both what they did on the consumer basis and on the small business basis to rally the troops. They’ve done other things since then, as you can imagine, the transformation from a branch based organization to a digital organization for the consumer is difficult. We see it sometimes when you go past branches, and you see that auto teller line is way down the street. This organization said, You know what, we’re going to handle this just like chick fil a, we’re going to put representatives with masks on in the line and saying, I think we can help you do what you want to do with the auto teller on your phone. They show them how to make deposits, how to make transfers of funds, how to check their bounces, all these things that the consumer was not able or not willing to embrace. But they said you know what, we’re going to get you out of this 40 minute line. We’ll show you how to do it. Now since they’ve taken another perspective of the restaurant industry and they built Specific drive up lanes in their parking lot for people to call ahead, if they have a transaction that had to be done in the branch, the branch employee comes out, takes her deposit or whatever they if they needed to coin their small business neat coin, they’ll go inside, they’ll transact the business and come out with the result. So this is innovation on the most basic scale. But the community understands they’re there for me. You know, and we have a lot of different situations. The SBA PPP loans, went to bigger small businesses, not to the smallest players, they didn’t go to the restaurant with 10 employees. Now, that was partially the fault of the small business because a lot of them didn’t have the, the wherewithal to know what their opportunities were. But some finance institutions have reached out to those visits and said, Let’s sit down. Let’s do it. A zoom call like this. Let’s figure out how we can bring you the solution. And I think that’s where I think empathy. And the ability to be a sustainable business on the banking side is really going to pay off because I think consumers coming out of COVID-19 are going to remember the pain they felt. And they’re going to remember, you know, has this organization really done well by me at a time when they didn’t even take their own interest into account?
Leslie Carruthers: Got it, I hear partnership too empathy, innovation.
Jim Marous: People before profits, and by the way, people before profits, it’s a very profitable proposition.
Leslie Carruthers: Yes, yes. Got it. And I get that what you’re saying the flip side of that the bank that wasn’t in communication, where before they were when they saw opportunity for themselves and you and now there’s no opportunity for them, it was just you and they’ve gone quiet. Yeah, that speaks volumes. What is COVID-19 revealed within the banking community that wouldn’t have seen or the banking community wouldn’t have seen had it not happened?
Jim Marous: Well, one thing for sure was the, what I call the fake digital players versus the real digital players. A lot of organizations gave the impression that they really knew what the consumer why they were delivered digitally. But the reality is, you know, while they maybe had a mobile app, the mobile app was clunky. You know, if you ever applied for a loan with Rocket Mortgage, or tried to apply for a credit card from Amex, Amex, a random process, yep, Amex, for instance, says, Here, give us your social security number and your mobile phone number and your name. That’s all we need. They’ll get back to me within three minutes Tell me if I’m approved or not for American Express card. Now, how do they do that? Well, they take your name, your social security number to run a credit bureau. To get all the other information they need to fill in all the forms that most organizations make me fill in. Why do they take my cell my cell number? Because they know I’m gonna respond quicker to a text than waiting for an email, a text rattles my phone and email doesn’t. So what’s happened is we have found out the gap of those organizations the gap of learning gap of technology. And also I think financial institutions have figured out that even the gap in the way you do work. We have a financial tuition in the northeast, in Maine, that is a very big organization have a very big call center. Well, in a matter of 24 hours, they had to go local, they had to go to their home base to do the call center operations. Well, TD Bank, which the bank found that this is working pretty well. So going back very much like Twitter and some other firms. They’re going to give the employee the option. Do you want to come in? Or do you want to work from home, it doesn’t make any difference trust for them. The technology was already in place to be able to monitor calls to know how long the calls are, who they were with. So the the organizations that were prepared for a digital future, were in the best position. And I think also, not just the bank, but the companies that serve banks. So while the banking industry was upended, so we’re all the companies that serve the banking industry. So again, a matter of 24 hours, salesmen were taken off the streets, events are canceled. And organizations had to say, How do I reach out to my customer base and show them active? They’re not seeing they’re not seeing our salespeople. They may see them on a zoom call, but it’s gonna take a while to figure out what that’s all about. So what happened is they reached out to firms like myself, to say, we need content, what can you give us to show them that we’re going to continually be on their site? How can we educate our customers about what they should be doing this thing because most of the institution for completely Everybody was unchartered territory. Now what’s gonna be interesting in the banking industry? Do I need a 45 storey bank building anymore? When two thirds, my employees could very easily work at home. This has been a revelation that says, you know, we were always worried about the trust factor about working from home, you know if they can do their daily work? Well, I think they’ve seen you know, where it’s worked, where it hasn’t worked, collaboration is still possible, where it isn’t, where innovation can move forward without having people around a boardroom table. And in fact, you know, I’ve been, I’ve been in the boardroom side, we sometimes would invite everybody possibly could for meeting despite the fact that many people didn’t have to be there. What’s happened is zoom calls quickly. Weed themselves out. If people aren’t feeling like they need to participate. All of a sudden we see the picture come up the static picture, you go, okay, they’ve either gone to the bathroom or they’ve completely left the meeting, but they’re certainly not perfect. pay more.
And so we’re we’re learning about people. We’re learning about business. And we’re learning about digitalization.
Leslie Carruthers: How many years do you think of progress have these banks been forced into the ones who weren’t prepared for digitalization?
Jim Marous: You know, it’s interesting. We have jumped forward, probably a decade if you looked at the speed of change prior to this, but we’ve seen the same thing with payments. So the consumer is really looking at the way that make payments number one, as you could be expected, the use of cash is way down. Why? Because the World Health Organization very early in the code crisis, you know, cash might be able to cash in coin, coin even more than cash, which was kind of victory might be able to carry the virus. So what do people do, and we use plastic? Well, then all of a sudden, very quickly, people Realize, if I lose plastic the traditional way, I can still push in my four digits. So I’m in a grocery store with all this plastic cup and people have masks. And they’re asking me to touch the same screen that 20 people before me touch. So all of a sudden contactless payment becomes important. Also mobile wallets. I no longer go to the store and say, Okay, I’m going to use this and I’m going to punch into things. No, I use my mobile wallet and have I’ll take care of there. That’s why the transactions that PayPal square Venmo Zell have all skyrocketed. Because also, if I wanted to pay you, I don’t think I’m writing a cheque or paying you in cash. I’m gonna find ways to do this digitally. And so the consumer and the way they’re transacting now also helping that is the fact that not surprisingly, shopping in Amazon is just gone through the roof. So people are understanding about digital transactions and purchasing things online if they hadn’t already. But I look at also the way that people realize I can buy groceries delivered and I don’t have to expose myself to the challenges of walking into a grocery store going down the lane in the right direction, wearing the mask, it’s, you know, put myself in a risky situation every day. I think we’ve already seen it. Grocery charts are a whole lot less busy as the US 30% of people at least tested delivery to home. And then you add communication. If my parents are still alive, I would imagine that they’d be communicate with all this using something like zoom, or FaceTime. Whoever wasn’t familiar with it, I could go down my street right now. And I know I can knock on every door and say, do you know what zoom is? Notice knew what it was before March 1. We all know what it is today. And so the expectations of being able to communicate somebody face to face where they may have used email or text before being a bank. Be a hotel. The restaurant is going to live The ability to build interaction in a different way.
Leslie Carruthers: What is the banking industry doing to prepare for the rebound?
Jim Marous: First of all, some of them are welcome to call some negative ramifications. Number one, they’re going to be under financial stress, just like the small businesses and their communities are. So the challenge is going to be of all these loan deferred payments of all these small businesses that are struggling because, you know, the government package only took care of payroll. It didn’t take care of ongoing operations and most small businesses only had cash enough for six months at most. Will businesses be back to normal? By September? I don’t think so. You know, cuz just because an organization says you can do business with us, the way you used to doesn’t mean we’re going to. So what’s what’s happened is some banks have already stated that their, their appetite for a home equity line of credit extensions, their appetite for small business lending is pretty much dried up, because they’re gonna be in a risk based scenario. So I think when you open the doors again, number one, you’re gonna see a whole lot different world, you’re gonna, you’re gonna walk into the branch at some point and maybe, and you’re gonna look around and going, you know, why am I here? I was able to handle this, you no longer we go, the more likely it is that a consumer is going to say, I can change the way I do what I’ve done, why do I want to go into the car and do banking this way? Why do I want to go in the car and do grocery shopping that way or regular shopping that way? So it’s going to really change things. So the ability to interact and to build relationships digitally is more important than ever. Financial institutions are also point of need. As I said, reach out to the community. Now, it doesn’t all have to be loans. I’ve worked with the small bank I mentioned in Edmonton or Edmond, Oklahoma, and said, you know, how about a program where you give grants to those small businesses that help other small businesses, maybe a web developer, maybe a company that knows how to do payment processing for a small restaurant, maybe a social media guru that can say, you know what, I can get your business back to normal. I doing that, or maybe it’s just a consultant, right? Let’s say in the restaurant industry that says, You need to change your business model. You’ve got to find a way to make it so people can order dinners regularly, and have it delivered to their house in a way that’s as normal as having gone out to dinner before. Because if you haven’t done that, that’s that’s gonna be a challenge. But if a bank was able to actually say, How can I build a synergy among businesses How can I support a visit the dentist ports another business and the trickle down effect it’s gonna be tremendous. So I think banks for me doing that as well.
Leslie Carruthers: So banking is for the better for having had this experience of COVID-19 Jim.
Jim Marous: There may be more digital organizations. I think the government’s working already with financial institutions to look at some regulations are outdated. So we have a regulation in the banking industry called Community Reinvestment Act and Community Reinvestment Act made it very difficult for banks to close branches in lower income neighborhoods despite the fact that As of the movement to payroll direct deposit and government checks being direct deposit of rents are used anywhere near to the level, they were back in the 70s, and 80s. So what they’re going to do is look and say, Okay, how can we look at this investment differently? because traditionally, if you closed a branch, the government would hold it against you, when you look to them for other guidance. Now, they’re saying, well, maybe you can close that branch. But what is your going to be your ongoing commitment to that community different than a branch office? I think that’s tremendous. Because, you know, what, what is the static office even called a community center? What does the static office give to a community as opposed to maybe having donations to local groups that re invest that money in the community? So that’s gonna be a major change? I think there’s the whole digitalization banking to me better. I think the focus on sustainability and sustainability used to be how, however, You’ve taken care of the environment, sustainability and banking now view in a broader sense. How are you going to take care of the people that are underbanked or unbanked? I can take care of those demographic groups that right now are suffering much more thanyour normal, your normal consumer, we find that it’s based on genders based on races based on income.
I think financial institutions are really going to be judged at how well they respond to those communities.
Leslie Carruthers: That’s interesting.
Leslie Carruthers: Yes. So Jim, as someone who’s transformed himself a few times in his career, what advice do you have for people now to prepare themselves for the rebound to stay relevant, to be productive and come out the other side? prepared, prepared?
Jim Marous: Well, we’re seeing different different ways. We’re already noticing the people are saying, I don’t want this to happen again. So back in the banking industry, we’re seeing savings rates escalate. We’re seeing credit card, credit or debt being reduced. That’s even from people that aren’t sitting there with a whole lot of money at this point. But on a personal and a small business basis, I can. I’ve been saying this for years now, number one, especially during this time, when you’re in lockdown, you’re you’re able to adjust. Number one, go after what you’re passionate about, and get out of your comfort zone. And what I mean by that is, every day, you’re something that really motivates you. Maybe it’s gardening. Maybe it’s working with the banking industry, maybe it’s collecting toy cars, you can make a business out of virtually anything, and it’ll be easier to make a business if you’re passionate about what you’re doing, rather than just going through the motions. So number one, learn more about what you really love. Take this time, the best innovations in the world have happened three times like these sewer systems, street systems, medical care came about because of pandemics Alibaba which is a financial institution out of China that you know Ali pay and Alibaba very big orientation came out of the SARS epidemic.
So these types of major transition major disruption, have already got your psyche, looking at everything differently. So think about what you’re really passionate about. Double down your learning, use LinkedIn, use Twitter, use Facebook, Instagram, heck, you can use Tick Tock to find others that have the exact same passion that you have. By building your community around people like you. You’ll learn more, and you can share what they’ve learned. As you move your learning curve higher, you’re going to be more prepared for the future.
How much better is it when you go through something like this? I’m not going to go through something like this again. How much better is it to be focused on something you really passionate about, rather than saying, Oh my god, do I dread going back to what I was doing. For those who are unemployed right now underemployed right now that’s 30% of the marketplace. That’s in a real stress position. Don’t just pack it in. Now’s the time to look at what you really want to do. Embrace the change that’s taking place. take some risks. Heck, you have risk all around you right now. And disrupt yourself. Hit that hit that have your own heart attack moment to change your behavior. I you know, I think I shared with you not only did I transform the way to business, but a year ago last January, I made the decision on the first of the year, I had to transform myself. I made a commitment to myself that said I had to eat different. I did not have the hard tech moment but I decided, you know what, what better way when I go on the road to show how it can be done than to do it within myself. Over the next eight months, nine months. I got an opinion. And that, that had me eating healthier understanding the dynamics of what I ate my relationship with food, my my human nature aspects of that. In addition, after I lost some weight, I got into a workout routine, which all these things have been thrown off kilter right now because none of the gyms are open, but I, I bought it, I bought a treadmill because the fact I’d said I’m not going to lose what I’ve gained. But during that period, I lost 55 pounds. And I completely changed my mental attitude with what I was doing. I’m not I think I’ve had to fast food meals, and both of them had been on the freeway where there are no options available when I was getting off the turnpike. But I’ve had only two fast food meals I was eating at a week before before my transformation. And now I’m able to share with others, how they can transform themselves. I don’t have it mastered yet I still have a long way to go with my own transformation. But when you make a major change, as anybody who’s ever moved careers, completely realized Once you do it once you realize it doesn’t kill you. And I actually have a T shirt that says, Did it kill you? And now I’m not wearing it because it takes on a different meaning but the reality is none of this change is life and death. Except that how do you want to live your life? You want to live live your life doing something you’re really passionate about? Or something you just going through the motions. What do you want for your family once one for your children. My son is a lacrosse player. He was a baseball player in eighth grade. One day, he said, I will be doing lacrosse. He doubled down he learned everything about it. And for eight years, it’s gonna be nine years now he’s going back. He loves the process so much. He’s going back to university and going to play out his eligibility going back to school for an extra year even though he’s graduated or had to have the courses to graduate he can actually graduate or he can play. But he’s made a career out of at right now with lacrosse. He’s been transformed himself. Again, my wife went from traditional retail to digital retail the same way. She was really good really, really good in store based retail merchandising. She decided one day, I’ve got to move with the marketplace. And when you do that you realize it’s a great feeling. So I again, I probably used up all the time, but, but basically embrace something you’re passionate about. pursue it with vigor. And it’s easier when you love it. And then disrupt yourself, change where you are today.
Leslie Carruthers: Really great. Yeah, her passion, learn how you can build community, disrupt yourself, move with the market, embrace the risk, because it’s already here.
Jim Marous: And you know what, overall have an abundance theory and an abundance mentality says just because other people are doing it doesn’t mean there’s not a market. For me doing it. One market may not be business, it may just be share voice. You know, there’s a lot of people that do and I do. My thought is, you know what, there’s people who don’t like the way I do it differently than others. So let me just get all of those people to address what I’m doing.
Leslie Carruthers: Yeah. And the last point we can say that each You know, it didn’t did it. No. Wow, really great. If you have just another 30 seconds, I’d love to hear Do you see yourself traveling internationally again, for large industry events?
Jim Marous: That’s a great question. That’s I tell my agent, I say, my ability to travel will probably will proceed. My desire to travel and my desire to travel. Definitely proceed my desire to be in front of 2000 3000 7000 people. I have to rethink all that. I was telling somebody the other day, I will probably be more apt to want to get into a baseball stadium before football stadium just because of congestion. When I’m probably deal with that, because I now know when you’re in contact with other people, what you need to do to lower your risk. Since I I need my sports, I need my music, my concerts. But as far as traveling, because it’s it’s optional, you have to make decisions and and, you know my It was interesting because my last trip my last job verte journey before COVID took place was to China, Seattle, California, New York and Boston. Now, the conspiracy theorists will say, so I’m the guy who took in all these plates, but I never got sick. But I look and I go once next time, I’m gonna want to visit China, even though I love the area. When’s the next time I’m gonna want to, you know, I want to go to Paris. I want to go to these other countries, but maybe not to meet with 7000 people, maybe it’s going to be for corporate meetings, and involve the board and the senior officers of a company. So we’ll rethink it. I’m sure we’ll get better. But we’re going to be cautious and we’re going to we’re going to make our selections on our comfort level. So you know if one airline Paxman more than others, I’ll make my decision as to where I want to what brands I want to follow going forward. I have my favorite brand before the COVID. They may change based on how they’ve handled this transition as well.
Leslie Carruthers: Got it.
Leslie Carruthers: Great. So, Jim, in your own personal business, I know you’ve transformed a number of times in your life and continue to transform how are you preparing for the rebound after COVID-19?
Jim Marous: My business is content business to media company where the financial branch is second largest publication in the banking industry. The digital bank report, I believe is one of the most vibrant primary research companies in the banking industry. My podcast is done very well. Thanks to the guests that have been on the show. But I think what was interesting was it was actually before all the shutdown happened, I was seeing that people were being taken off the streets from salesman perspective for the solution providers. In addition, banks are closing and a venture being cancelled. I said, you know, what, these organizations that are selling to the banking industry, which to degree, I’m talking to the banking industry, are going to say, I need to find a way to connect with these companies again. And so the way we transformed is we realize that there’s a whole lot more content available. I’m doing webinars probably twice a week right now. Sponsored webinars for solution providers to get their message out to the banking community as to how should we go forward? I’m writing more articles. We’re doing more podcasts. We’ve had some amazing guests that have talked about how business has changed. I, you know, I go back quite a ways but there’s a gentleman by the name of Tom Peters who is taught by many to be the management and leadership Guru from 40 years ago when he wrote In Search of Excellence, I was able to have him on the show. And he talked about the fact Wow, as much as things have changed. The reality is it’s still about people. He was able to take what was happening to pass to the to the current, I was able to have Steve wise and the co founder of Apple on the show IV, I’ve been lucky enough to have authors and leaders in the banking community and the business community. Come on and say, you know, again, here’s where we move forward. And for me, this I’ve never been busier. You know, it’s funny cuz myself and a gentleman down the other end of the street, where I think we’re the two business busiest old men in the street because he is in the tele telehealth business and he goes, he was busy before, but overnight, telehealth became, you know, there was he were missing on the street is somebody coming up with a vaccine, that person would also be busy right now, but I think we have to do is make the make lemonade out of lemons and realize that you’ve got to move forward and find ways to serve a market that you’ve already established
Leslie Carruthers: Got it, keep on transforming man and inspiration,
Thank you so much.